Why the hate on the I hate Religion but I love Jesus guy?

marcovhv submitted:

I figured I’d use the submit here because the ask box doesn’t allow enough characters. Do with this as you please! 

As a fellow Atheist I really believe atheists are doing the world a disservice by bashing the ‘I hate religion but I love Jesus’ guy. I get what you’re saying about his logic being flawed but really, if all Christians were like this guy no atheist (me included) would ever be agitated by Christians. We wouldn’t get upset on a daily basis by the bigotry and the hate coming from Christianity every day. Furthermore, if all Christians were like this guy there wouldn’t be a problem for atheists getting certain jobs in America either, probably including presidency. I could compile a whole list of bad things that would be better if they all were like him but I’m sure you get the picture.

I pretty much almost agree with the guy except for the fact that I look as Jesus as an abstract ‘made up’ concept rather than someone who is actually real. The teachings related to Jesus however are real and applicable and if all Christians would actually live by those teachings that can be found in their own damn book, the world would be a hell of a lot more pleasant place than it is now.

If all Christians were like this guy I bet you wouldn’t even be running this blog right now. There’d hardly be anything to argue against.

Just something to think about…

Marco (who is also a huge fan of reason just like you)

Thanks for writing!! From the start I will say that I don’t agree with your argument but I can see how one gets to it. I will enumerate my disagreement with some of the assumptions your question makes, like for example that following Jesus’ teaching is inherently a good thing. Please pardon if any of my points come across as confrontational. That is not my intention. The way my brain judges arguments tends to sound like this but that is not the case.

Let’s start:

1) Jesus exalted the god of the old testament, that genocidal maniacal monster. He preached that unbelievers would burn in hell and that only through him can people be good and saved. Like we are somehow infected and in need of saving. Sorry but I’m not a fan. Be it that Jesus was a made up person or not his teachings cannot be generalized as all good. They are certainly not. Is there any mystery on why and how Christianity has behaved and still behaves to this day? No there is not if one looks at the teachings of Jesus closely.

2) I do not believe that if people put all of what Jesus said into practice the world would necessarily be a better place. I prefer to not generalize.

3) Irrationality is a problem in itself. It easily devolves into fanaticism, fundamentalism and censure. See how many who claim to “love” Jesus and hate “religion” still think that it is ok for gays to burn in hell (Bible based concept). What does he mean by “I love the church, I love the bible and I still believe in sin”? He does not tell us. If he did his religion would show.

4) If the dude’s premise is wrong, whatever he derives from it will be fatally flawed even if it looks good on the surface. Religious moderation is just the shade where religious fanaticism luxuriates (see the End of Faith by Sam Harris and the FAQ for more details). Playing with semantics does not change the facts of the matter. Pointing such is not “hating” but underlining something that is truly necessary to know. You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig.

5) Religion says slave, Jesus says son?
1 Corinthians 7:22, Romans 6:18, Rom 14:8, John 12:25-26, etc..etc…
Christians are actually slaves of Christ. The ideal relationship between god and believers is that of a master to his slaves. That is abundantly clear. The poor rapper/poet dude does not know his own, for a lack of a better term, religion that well. More could be said but just one sample suffices.

6) Jesus = Religion. A change in semantics makes absolutely no difference.

In reason:
-FA

Spain’s stolen babies and the families who lived a lie

Via BBC:

"Doctors, nuns?" she says, almost in horror. "I couldn’t accuse them of lying. This was Franco’s Spain. A dictatorship. Even now we Spaniards tend not to question authority."

The scale of the baby trafficking was unknown until this year, when two men - Antonio Barroso and Juan Luis Moreno, childhood friends from a seaside town near Barcelona - discovered that they had been bought from a nun. Their parents weren’t their real parents, and their life had been built on a lie.

and

Dr Vela grabbed a metal crucifix which had been standing on his desk. He moved towards me brandishing it in my face. “Do you know what this is, Katya?” he said. “I have always acted in his name. Always for the good of the children and to protect the mothers. Enough.”

20dollarwitchery
20dollarwitchery:

friendlyatheist:

100% true. A non-proselytizing christian is not a christian at all (see 1 Corinthians 9:16, Mark 16:15-16, Galatians 3:8, Romans 10:14, etc…etc…etc…)
-FA

This is bullshit, whoever made it, and they can suck my big Catholic dick.
Anyone Christian or Catholic with common sense knows they shouldn’t force their religion onto others.
Also, Bible quotes? Really? REALLY? Well fuck, next time I bleed out of my snatch I’ll be sure to shelter myself in a hut so I don’t dirty those around me. 
If you’re going to denounce a part of the bible (such as that dumb shit Leviticus), you can’t turn it around Christians and Catholics just for whatever verse suits your agenda.
STOP GENERALIZING.

1) Catholic dick? How christian of you!!!2) All bible verses above are from the New Testament. None from Leviticus. You FAIL.3) Last time I looked the words of Jesus and the Apostoles had some authority for Christians. I guess you must be an exception. Why do you call yourself Christian again?4) Again, only “Christians” who do not know the first thing about the bible are non-proselitizing. Just like you. Thanks for providing such a perfect demonstration.
In reason:-FA

20dollarwitchery:

friendlyatheist:

100% true. A non-proselytizing christian is not a christian at all (see 1 Corinthians 9:16, Mark 16:15-16, Galatians 3:8, Romans 10:14, etc…etc…etc…)

-FA

This is bullshit, whoever made it, and they can suck my big Catholic dick.

Anyone Christian or Catholic with common sense knows they shouldn’t force their religion onto others.

Also, Bible quotes? Really? REALLY? Well fuck, next time I bleed out of my snatch I’ll be sure to shelter myself in a hut so I don’t dirty those around me. 

If you’re going to denounce a part of the bible (such as that dumb shit Leviticus), you can’t turn it around Christians and Catholics just for whatever verse suits your agenda.

STOP GENERALIZING.

1) Catholic dick? How christian of you!!!
2) All bible verses above are from the New Testament. None from Leviticus. You FAIL.
3) Last time I looked the words of Jesus and the Apostoles had some authority for Christians. I guess you must be an exception. Why do you call yourself Christian again?
4) Again, only “Christians” who do not know the first thing about the bible are non-proselitizing. Just like you. Thanks for providing such a perfect demonstration.

In reason:
-FA

Marion (email taken out for privacy) submitted:

There was a young man who went overseas to study for quite a long time. When he returned, he asked his parents to find him a religious scholar or any expert who could answer his 3 Questions. Finally, his parents were able to find a Muslim scholar.

  • Young man: Who are you? Can you answer my questions?
  • Scholar: I am one of God’s slaves and God willing, I will be able to answer your questions.
  • Young man: Are you sure? A lot of Professors and experts were not able to answer my questions.
  • Scholar: I will try my best, with the help of God.
  • Young Man: I have 3 questions: 1. Does God exist? If so, show me His shape. 2. What is fate? 3.If the devil was created from the fire, why at the end he will be thrown to hell that is also created from fire. It certainly will not hurt him at all, since the devil and hell were both created from fire. Did God not think of it this far?
  • Suddenly, the Scholar slapped the young man’s face very hard.
  • Young Man (feeling pain): Why do you get angry at me?
  • Scholar: I am not angry. The slap is my answer to your three questions.
  • Young Man: I really don’t understand.
  • Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?
  • Young Man: Of course, I felt the pain.
  • Scholar: So do you believe that pain exists?
  • Young Man: Yes.
  • Scholar: Show me the shape of the pain!
  • Young Man: I cannot.
  • Scholar: That is my first answer. All of us feel God’s existence without being able to see His shape… Last night, did you dream that you will be slapped by me?
  • Young Man: No.
  • Scholar: Did you ever think that you will get a slap from me, today?
  • Young Man: No.
  • Scholar: That is fate…….. My hand that I used to slap you, what is it created from?
  • Young Man: It is created from flesh.
  • Scholar: How about your face, what is it created from?
  • Young Man: Flesh.
  • Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?
  • Young Man: In pain.
  • Scholar: Even though the devil and also hell were created from the fire, if God wants, the hell will become a very painful place for the devil.

FA says:

So basically god is mental sensory perception of human generated stimuli as opposed to a real being independent and complete in itself. I get it. Like pain, love, dreams or simple and plain imagination, god resides only and exclusively in the mind.

Thanks Muslim scholar!!! Thanks for making clear that the gods are pure products of human minds and that such cannot exist independent of such. Good to know we are in agreement. Although there was no need to resort to violence to make a point, of course. What is it with religion and violence for crying out loud?