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Via: Fuck Yeah! Religion Pigeon
After running my daily 2 miles at the park….
A young preacher started to shout about heaven, souls and hell to passers by. I decided to talk to him a bit. I asked him how he knew what he believed was true. He tried to shout his answers back at me (so others could hear) but I reminded him of the following:
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
At this point he decided to keep the conversation between us. Long story short, after talking about prophecy, Josh McDowell, Lee Strobel and saying only believers in god are actually good (which I conclusively debunked), he asked me how i thought “good” was defined. I told him “good” and “bad” are defined by society mainly in terms of what produces happiness to you and others. It is an evolving concept. He objected, he said morality, to be true, can never change. I said, no way even bible morality changes. Is it good or bad to have slaves? I asked him, where in the bible was slavery ever abolished?
It goes without saying that he did not want to answer. “It is opening a can of worms to discuss that”, he said. (Really? And to think that I once believed opposition to slavery was an universally accepted concept. I wonder what would an African American evangelical would have said in this same situation.)
To finish i told him that if he gave me an answer, whatever it was, i would leave him and let him continue to
scream preach at the people passing by. His answer was: slavery is good depending on the master. At that point I shook his hand (and my head) and left.
Is there any doubt how religion warps the mind so much that the obvious (humans are not property) becomes questionable if it contradicts one’s delusional notions? Believers might think that being a slave to god (whatever that means), to depend on another for your decisions, to delegate your reasoning to a third party is the most wonderful thing ever. But I know otherwise. History has taught us as much. That is why I spoke out. That is why I talked to the preacher. Because once upon a time that preacher standing there was me.
Never be afraid to respectfully speak your mind. Never. Specially when it is so fun to do so.
Alright, onto my question now.
Recently, I've been having a few debates on how Islam actually encourages slavery through many passages in the Quran. In fact, the Quran has many ayats (verses) on how to deal with the slaves that belong to you. The thing is, when you try and have a discussion with a Muslim on how Islam does not condemn slavery yet condones it, they usually get defensive and start to talk about how times are different today and slavery has changed. They also talk about how all the slaves were POW's and were captured from encounters between nations (although this blatantly is not true, search for the "Arab slave trade").
What is the logic you can use to prove that Islam really DID condone slavery, and that slavery is not positive no matter what the situation?
[This was a response I had gotten:
Thank you ahead of time!!
Thank you in advance!
Christians make the same arguments. They don’t hold water for Islam either.
1) Is god constrained by human culture and times? If slavery is evil, god should have know this since eternity. Couldn’t have god abolished slavery (and bring that culture a moral guidance they did not have) by one of his all knowing all powerful commands? Why did god have to wait until humanity decided slavery was evil before agreeing with it? Isn’t such a god indistinguishable from no god?
2) Last time I looked we still had wars. Do we make POW slaves today? Of course not. Why would it have to be any different in the past considering god could have instructed humanity so if he so desired? Such a god is either evil or does not exist.
3) Moral wrongs can be placed two categories: wrongs by commission and wrongs by omission.
The doctrine that it makes an ethical difference whether an agent actively intervenes to bring about a result, or omits to act in circumstances in which it is foreseen that as a result of the omission the same result occurs. Thus suppose I wish you dead. If I act to bring about your death I am a murderer, but if I happily discover you in danger of death, and fail to act to save you, I am not acting, and therefore according to the doctrine not a murderer. Critics reply that omissions can be as deliberate and immoral as commissions: if I am responsible for your food and fail to feed you, my omission is surely a killing. ‘Doing nothing’ can be a way of doing something, or in other words, absence of bodily movement can also constitute acting negligently, or deliberately, and depending on the context may be a way of deceiving, betraying, or killing.
If we take the stories contained in the bible or the quran as true, god is the ultimate moral monster by both commission and omission. An all knowing all powerful being that fails to end slavery, if it existed, would not be worthy of anyones praise. Good thing there is no reason to believe that any of what the bible or the quran say is true.
Fact is things are how they would be if a god did not exist. Moral advancements appear as humanity is able to reason them out. A god has nothing to do with it.
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