Response etc…

Yes, in countries like Afghanistan, being a pedophile is allowed but in countries like Iran, an Islamic country, it’s a crime. It’s considered to be rape - which will result into a death sentence, NOT for the victim, though but rather the person committing the crime.

And Muslims in the West (at least some) do not approve of polygamy and do not wear hijabs or whatever other differences one might point out. Still I think you missed the point completely. See point 8 on my FAQ here:

http://friendlyatheist.tumblr.com/post/546460527/frequently-answered-questions

If there is one thing I have realized, you can never argue with an atheist as they will always: deny, deny, deny (no offense)

Deny what? On the contrary I affirm that:

1) All religions are myth and superstition.


2) That polygamy is an affront to women no matter where, when or how.


3) That pedophilia is unacceptable anywhere and everywhere.


4) That the solution to these problems can only be found in reason,logic and the requirement of evidence to justify beliefs and actions. It will never be found in religious moderation since moderation is just a a few verse interpretations away from fundamentalism.

But in a way, I can see why. Honestly, I don’t blame you.

For example:

I have had many Christians tell me that Jesus was the son of God, God himself and a holy spirit and that he died for my sins, yada yada.

And I hate that. I don’t believe that Jesus was the son of God or that he died for my sins as the story in the bible does not make sense to me.

Same thing with me. But unlike you I don’t make an exception with Islam. Or any other religious belief.

While I believe strongly in religion, I also believe in science. Scientifically, there is only one way to make a child and the idea of God having sex with a mere human is not only disgusting but something that doesn’t make sense. As well as the idea of Jesus dying for our sins. If he really was crucified and he died of our sins, what’s the point then of being on Earth? Why not just directly go to heaven instead of going through all that trouble? Sorry for the rambling, by the way.

I agree 100%.

So while I do not agree with your views, I can see why you believe that way.

I can see why you reject the ideas of religion, as I myself reject the ways of Christianity and Judaism as well.

It has been said that:

When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen F Roberts.

It seems you understand the concept. What I don’t understand is how can you ignore the implications of such.

So take care and have a nice day.

Thank you. You too.

Thank you for the well put response.

Thank you for the reaching out and making your viewpoints know.
In reason:
-FA

A response to the response to my response…

My answers in bold.

-beautifu-l answered you:

Hello.

Thank you very much for your response.

Your are welcome.

Even if Islam or any other religon did not exist, there would still be chaos in the world. There are thousands of pedophiles in the world and yet they are not blamed on their religon.

True. No one said all evil comes from religion. But that does not excuse the evil things that do come from it (or that are justified by it) nor does it liberate us from the responsibility of rejecting and fighting such. And yes, we do prosecute pedophiles legally. Sadly in Islamic countries religion protects such abominable conduct. Just like the Catholic clergy has done all over the world.

You need to realize that people use religon has a excuse.

Or as the following of divine commands. If god told you to sacrifice your first and only born child, would you do it? If the answer is no then, was Abraham wrong? If the answer is yes, how would that be different from god telling you to fly a plane into a skyscraper killing all inside? Would you do it? Yes? No? Why?

Polygamy is only allowed in Islam with the wife’s permission and believe it or not many women ALLOW and SUPPORT their husband getting a second wife.

And you think that makes it ok? Really? You reminded me of the following quote I posted not too long ago on this blog: “When you are born a woman in Afghanistan you’re taught to hate yourself”. How sad that religion, in your case, blinds you to such issues as equality and justice as it applies TO YOUR OWN GENDER.

Yes, the Prophet did have multiple wives but Prophet Mohammad was not the only one. Many Jewish and Christian Prophets have many wives so they could have heirs and spread the word of God.

And you think that justifies treating women as baby factories so “they could have heirs and spread the word of God”? Really? The “prophet” was wrong for doing as such, just as wrong these other Jewish and Christian “prophets”. And let’s not talk about slavery as it relates to the Abrahamic religions. It gets even worse. I wonder what other “justifications” (more like excuses) can the religious like you come up with. Don’t you see that the same renunciation of logic you use in defense of polygamy is the same one other believers in your own religion use to defend pedophilia, and suicide bombings among many other evils?

Prophet Mohammad married mostly widowed women. He would take care of them by giving them money, food, a home. He took care of their children and made sure that they had the best life possible.

I donate to charities that help widowed women and children in Africa. I don’t have to marry them, much less have sex with them. I don’t pay for sex. Much less trying to disguise such payments as “charity”. That is so despicable and misogynistic that it escapes description.

Islam is not the main reason for the blood shed in the Middle East. The West is.

Sure, because the Shia and the Sunni started to kill each other just a few years ago. Right? Because the Jews (believing they have a divine land deed to Palestine) and the Arabs have always been peaceful throughout history till recently. Right? All these conflicts predate the west. And that is just fact.

Who gave Saddam weapons to kill millions of Iraqis and Iranians? The West

I don’t condone violence in any way, shape or form. But the point is this: Muslims killing other Muslims. Where the weapons come from makes no difference. Is like blaming the bullet for the murder instead of the person that pulled the trigger.

Who supports Israel’s terror on the Palestinians and gives Israel millions of dollars? The West

Who supports Palestinian suicide bombers and gives terrorist groups the means to execute such operations? Islamic organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. And your point is? Again, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict predates the West. Again, study your history first.

Who did Osama Bin Laden used to work for? The West. In fact he used to be an ex Cia agent.

Bin Laden fought against the Soviets. “Working” for the West? Not so much. More like the enemy of my enemy is my friend type of deal. Fighting the Soviets who were invading Afghanistan. Law of unintended consequences I guess. The fact of the matter is that when the terrorists hit the towers their last words were “Allahu Akbhar”. Their expressed intentions were clear. Look them up.

All of the dictators in the world are because of the West.

Sure. Because the Iranian theocracy is a West created and established system. Because the cutting of hands for stealing, stoning for adultery and death for apostasy (as established in Sharia Law) is all the West’s doing. How the Saudis treat women or how they act in Indonesia is all due to the West. Because there were no dictators before what we called the modern West existed. Right?

And for one reason only - oil.

Sure. That is why invading Iraq was such a great idea an oil right now is at one dollar per gallon. Right? The cheapest in history no doubt.

If there were no oil in the West, there would be no hate against Muslims.

I don’t know about hate. I don’t hate Muslims. But I can tell you that the legitimate critiques I make in this blog are not dependent on oil. They are environmentally responsible. :-) Nor can they be construed as hate in any way, shape or form.

Ironically, all of the Muslim terrorists began the EXACT SAME time when oil was discovered, which was like 100 years ago.

Check your history. There is nothing more terrorizing than Sharia law (right next to the laws in the Old Testament). It predates oil btw. Just so you know.

And even so, are you justifying suicide bombings? I personally prefer the Gandhi/MLK method of effecting change.

The fact of the matter is that there are no suicide Jainist terrorists. The more radical you become as a Jainist the more peaceful and non violent you become. The same cannot be said of Islam. Any idea why?

In Islam, killing one person is killing the world. Suicide bombing is not allowed. Whoever commits suicide, for WHICHEVER reason, even in the name of “Allah”, will spend forever in the fires of hell.

As you interpret it. Some “scholars” using the same texts you believe to be holy have arrived to a different conclusion. So different that the result of suicide in the service of god is nothing less that a whole bunch of virgins (truly a more misogynistic depiction of heaven you will not find). The fact of the matter is that such texts are not holy and we should not depend on them to know what is right or wrong.

Look, fundamentalist are not crazy. They are not any less crazy than the moderates. Remember that moderate dogma is as equally unsupported by evidence as the extremist kind. The difference only lies in the terrible behavioral outcomes of one in comparison with the other.

The solution to those behavioral outcomes can only come from rejecting irrationality and promoting evidence on all fronts. Moderates don’t get a free pass. Fact is that moderation can and does breed extremism because both moderates and extremists share the same irrational mindset. It is not in atheist conventions where radicalization occurs, but in moderate mosques and churches all around the globe. Have you asked yourself why?

For more on this topic check out point 8 on my FAQ.

Please don’t think that all Muslims are terrorist.

Never said so. Never even thought that is the case.

I hope one day you will see Islam for the religion it truly is - not as religion of terror.

I see all religions for what they are. A rejection of reason and an affirmation of superstition. We have seen its effects. humanity has seen it for thousands of years now. 

Have a wonderful day.

You too.

May you and your family be blessed.

In reason always:
-FA

Nadarkhani, in his early 30s, converted from Islam to Christianity at 19 and then became a pastor of a small evangelical congregation called the Church of Iran, AFP reported. He was arrested in 2009 and condemned to death for apostasy under strict Islamic Sharia laws, which do allow for such verdicts to be overturned if the convicted person “repents” and renounces his conversion.

So I guess the whole “there is no compulsion in Islam” is something optional in Sharia Law. Optional as in non-existent.

unfriendlyatheist-deactivated20
unfriendlyatheist:

“Your life centers around how your body is viewed by men. Your religion thinks of you only in terms of whether or not men find you sexually attractive. You will be honored as a person only if you wear x amount of clothing; if you wear y amount of clothing, you will be condemned. Your life centers around how your body is viewed by men.”

unfriendlyatheist:

“Your life centers around how your body is viewed by men. Your religion thinks of you only in terms of whether or not men find you sexually attractive. You will be honored as a person only if you wear x amount of clothing; if you wear y amount of clothing, you will be condemned. Your life centers around how your body is viewed by men.”

yes-butno
Why does this have to be pointed out? Where are the “yes I am a Quaker. no, I am not a terrorist” images?
Although it is true that only the extreme minority of Muslims are terrorists it seems no one is asking why such a development occurs within the Islamic religion. Although it is a minority who are terrorists, it happens so often that apparently moderate Muslims feel the need to distance themselves from fundamentalist Muslims.
Where are the jain suicide bombers? Where are the buddhist terrorists? If religious beliefs have nothing to do with it, why islam and not some other religions?
-FA

Why does this have to be pointed out? Where are the “yes I am a Quaker. no, I am not a terrorist” images?

Although it is true that only the extreme minority of Muslims are terrorists it seems no one is asking why such a development occurs within the Islamic religion. Although it is a minority who are terrorists, it happens so often that apparently moderate Muslims feel the need to distance themselves from fundamentalist Muslims.

Where are the jain suicide bombers? Where are the buddhist terrorists? If religious beliefs have nothing to do with it, why islam and not some other religions?

-FA

what-she-came-for asked:

I would like to add for the argument that child marriage were common at that time:
Sure, the marriage of children were common at that time, in the whole world. Mind you, after the girl had the first period, however, she was already a woman. Most of the consummations of child marriages happened after the first period.
The fact that is stated that Aisha was still a child in the time of consummation, without even menstruating yet, and that she was Muhammad's "favorite wife" just... leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Because, well, that's it. It's not only that he married a 9 year old for me. But saying that same child is his favorite wife is really suspicious...
(

The point that for some reason gets lost, don’t know why, is that if Muhammad was a prophet surely god could have told him that having sex with a 9 year old was bad ( god could have also told him that slavery and killing apostates was not a good idea either). The fact that the religions of the time acted in accordance to the cultures from which they surfaced only confirms the fact that a god had nothing to do with it. 

What purpose does revelation serve if such cannot transcend the confines of culture and time? Only logic, reason and the requirement of evidence to support beliefs have been able to evolve our concepts of morality for the better. Not because of god belief but in spite of it. The fact that muslims have to make all sorts of rationalizations to try and distance themselves from what is clearly stated in history and their own scriptures and traditions only serves to underline the point that religion is a man made product where no supernatural revelation has taken place. There is no revelation because there is no evidence that a god that reveals itself actually exists in the first place. 

In reason:
-FA

momzynoor
The 10 rational answers for the deluded heart.
I do not believe in the existence of Allah and I don’t follow his supposed commands. Wouldn’t do it even if such a fictional being did exist. Might does not make right.
I do not love self proclaimed prophets. Much less if the marry and have intercourse with a 9 year old. It makes it seem that Allah was to busy to tell Muhammad that being a pedophile was as wrong then as it is now.
I do not read the Qu’ran regularly, but when I have read some of it I have found it to be boring and full of nonsense. Hopefully less and less people will put it into practice, starting with Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and most if not all Islamic nations. After reading the Qu’ran and the peripheral documents that support it, is it a surprise such countries have an abysmally poor human rights record?
I enjoy the benefits of my own work, thank you very much. Allah, nor any other god, had anything to do with it.
There is no evidence of god, much less of a shaitan. Pure nonsense.
I will not be bribed into doing what is right. Doing good is its own reward.
I will not be threatened nor scared into not doing what is wrong. Empathy and reason do so for me without resorting to fear.
We will all face death and that is why living a full life is so important. This is all we have, no point in devaluing life for a promise of eternity that has no evidence of being real to begin with. The moment we all realize this, flying planes into buildings will cease to be a worry. The murder of innocents in the name of martyrdom will stop.
Being an asshole is something to be avoided. But it is still your right to be one if you so choose.
The dead show us that life is unique and precious. No reason to waste it in the pursuit of myths and superstitions.  
-FA

The 10 rational answers for the deluded heart.

I do not believe in the existence of Allah and I don’t follow his supposed commands. Wouldn’t do it even if such a fictional being did exist. Might does not make right.

I do not love self proclaimed prophets. Much less if the marry and have intercourse with a 9 year old. It makes it seem that Allah was to busy to tell Muhammad that being a pedophile was as wrong then as it is now.

I do not read the Qu’ran regularly, but when I have read some of it I have found it to be boring and full of nonsense. Hopefully less and less people will put it into practice, starting with Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and most if not all Islamic nations. After reading the Qu’ran and the peripheral documents that support it, is it a surprise such countries have an abysmally poor human rights record?

I enjoy the benefits of my own work, thank you very much. Allah, nor any other god, had anything to do with it.

There is no evidence of god, much less of a shaitan. Pure nonsense.

I will not be bribed into doing what is right. Doing good is its own reward.

I will not be threatened nor scared into not doing what is wrong. Empathy and reason do so for me without resorting to fear.

We will all face death and that is why living a full life is so important. This is all we have, no point in devaluing life for a promise of eternity that has no evidence of being real to begin with. The moment we all realize this, flying planes into buildings will cease to be a worry. The murder of innocents in the name of martyrdom will stop.

Being an asshole is something to be avoided. But it is still your right to be one if you so choose.

The dead show us that life is unique and precious. No reason to waste it in the pursuit of myths and superstitions.  

-FA

Anti-Muslim bigotry includes inflammatory rhetoric by elected officials, congressional panel is told.

Now the title you will never read in such publications:

Non-Muslims in Middle Eastern countries ‘face growing discrimination”

Anti-non-Muslim bigotry includes inflammatory rhetoric by elected (or not elected) officials, Imaans, Mullahs and the general public.

For example being gay, an atheist, or an apostate are grounds for arrest, torture and even execution.

Where are the moderate Muslim voices fighting for the rights of Christians, Jews, gays, atheists and other minorities in Saudi Arabia, Iran or Afghanistan, for example?

Isn’t if funny (actually sad) how pointing out such blatant hypocrisy is justification enough for some to label you as an Islamophobe? What pure B.S.

If you are going to use the persecution card make sure that by your silence and inaction you are not enabling the same conduct you deplore when it is applied to people who share your same point of view.

Just look at the Islam and Quran tags in Tumblr. Post after post of Muslims complaining about Islamophobia in the US but not one single post complaining about how non-Muslims are treated all over the middle east.

Actions (or lack of thereof) speak louder than words. If Islam is a religion of peace and justice it sure seems to be one sided as in only for those that belong to the group. Fact: Religion divides people. Humanity would be better off without it.

In reason:
-FA

subhanallah-deactivated2012 asked:

So I saw that someone had posted something on my dashboard in relation to a few misunderstood quotes from the Quran stating that God has asked Muslims to ‘kill the unbelievers’ and things like that. And I just want to clarify a few things with some people: Muslim or not.

It’s like imagine you have a book of Shakespeare’s (who’s language is so rich and hard to comprehend) and you take out one line out of nowhere…it won’t make much sense without reading the few lines before and the few lines after or the whole book right?

It’s the same with these verses in the Quran…the verses that seem horrible and figure out that in fact they were written in relation to a war that happened between the Muslims and Christians of the time (as one example)..it’s just a matter of reading the whole chapter or the whole thing!

The Quran is a book of science, jurisprudence, history and a is a sort of problem manual for mankind..you can find an answer to everything in the World in the Quran and many people have converted because it holds words of immense wisdom.

The Quran is also written in Arabic if you may well know and Arabic is one of the World’s richest languages where one word can have ‘x’ amount of meanings. So this is how and why so many people mis-interpret the Quran and it’s meaning.

Sometimes, the meaning is so clear- but people like to exaggerate and take things too far and this eventually leads the whole context out of it’s original context! Which is obviously absurd and it leads to people like the Taliban forming minorities and believing that they are the only ‘right’ people on Earth.

The first thing that all honest students of Islam must admit is that it is not absolutely clear where members of al Qaeda, the Taliban, al-Shabab, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Hamas, and other Muslim terrorist groups have misconstrued their religious obligations. If they are “extremists” who have deformed an ancient faith into a death cult, they haven’t deformed it by much. When one reads the Koran and the hadith, and consults the opinions of Muslim jurists over the centuries, one discovers that killing apostates, treating women like livestock, and waging jihad—not merely as an inner, spiritual struggle but as holy war against infidels—are practices that are central to the faith. Granted, one path out of this madness might be for mainstream Muslims to simply pretend that this isn’t so—and by this pretense persuade the next generation that the “true” Islam is peaceful, tolerant of difference, egalitarian, and fully compatible with a global civil society. But the holy books remain forever to be consulted, and no one will dare to edit them. Consequently, the most barbarous and divisive passages in these texts will remain forever open to being given their most plausible interpretations.

-Sam Harris