This volume rejects the notion that Islam’s sacred text is error free and cannot be critically evaluated. The study of the Koran must develop and mature. Scholars of Islam are of course familiar with the book’s many errors and contradictions, but these inherent flaws have rarely been revealed to a wider public. “The Origins of the Koran” is an attempt to remedy this deficiency by bringing together classic critical essays which raise key issues surrounding Islam’s holy book.
Yes, in countries like Afghanistan, being a pedophile is allowed but in countries like Iran, an Islamic country, it’s a crime. It’s considered to be rape - which will result into a death sentence, NOT for the victim, though but rather the person committing the crime.
And Muslims in the West (at least some) do not approve of polygamy and do not wear hijabs or whatever other differences one might point out. Still I think you missed the point completely. See point 8 on my FAQ here:
If there is one thing I have realized, you can never argue with an atheist as they will always: deny, deny, deny (no offense)
Deny what? On the contrary I affirm that:
1) All religions are myth and superstition.
2) That polygamy is an affront to women no matter where, when or how.
3) That pedophilia is unacceptable anywhere and everywhere.
4) That the solution to these problems can only be found in reason,logic and the requirement of evidence to justify beliefs and actions. It will never be found in religious moderation since moderation is just a a few verse interpretations away from fundamentalism.
But in a way, I can see why. Honestly, I don’t blame you.
I have had many Christians tell me that Jesus was the son of God, God himself and a holy spirit and that he died for my sins, yada yada.
And I hate that. I don’t believe that Jesus was the son of God or that he died for my sins as the story in the bible does not make sense to me.
Same thing with me. But unlike you I don’t make an exception with Islam. Or any other religious belief.
While I believe strongly in religion, I also believe in science. Scientifically, there is only one way to make a child and the idea of God having sex with a mere human is not only disgusting but something that doesn’t make sense. As well as the idea of Jesus dying for our sins. If he really was crucified and he died of our sins, what’s the point then of being on Earth? Why not just directly go to heaven instead of going through all that trouble? Sorry for the rambling, by the way.
I agree 100%.
So while I do not agree with your views, I can see why you believe that way.
I can see why you reject the ideas of religion, as I myself reject the ways of Christianity and Judaism as well.
It has been said that:
“When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen F Roberts.
It seems you understand the concept. What I don’t understand is how can you ignore the implications of such.
So take care and have a nice day.
Thank you. You too.
Thank you for the well put response.
Thank you for the reaching out and making your viewpoints know.
My answers in bold.
-beautifu-l answered you:
Thank you very much for your response.
Your are welcome.
Even if Islam or any other religon did not exist, there would still be chaos in the world. There are thousands of pedophiles in the world and yet they are not blamed on their religon.
True. No one said all evil comes from religion. But that does not excuse the evil things that do come from it (or that are justified by it) nor does it liberate us from the responsibility of rejecting and fighting such. And yes, we do prosecute pedophiles legally. Sadly in Islamic countries religion protects such abominable conduct. Just like the Catholic clergy has done all over the world.
You need to realize that people use religon has a excuse.
Or as the following of divine commands. If god told you to sacrifice your first and only born child, would you do it? If the answer is no then, was Abraham wrong? If the answer is yes, how would that be different from god telling you to fly a plane into a skyscraper killing all inside? Would you do it? Yes? No? Why?
Polygamy is only allowed in Islam with the wife’s permission and believe it or not many women ALLOW and SUPPORT their husband getting a second wife.
And you think that makes it ok? Really? You reminded me of the following quote I posted not too long ago on this blog: “When you are born a woman in Afghanistan you’re taught to hate yourself”. How sad that religion, in your case, blinds you to such issues as equality and justice as it applies TO YOUR OWN GENDER.
Yes, the Prophet did have multiple wives but Prophet Mohammad was not the only one. Many Jewish and Christian Prophets have many wives so they could have heirs and spread the word of God.
And you think that justifies treating women as baby factories so “they could have heirs and spread the word of God”? Really? The “prophet” was wrong for doing as such, just as wrong these other Jewish and Christian “prophets”. And let’s not talk about slavery as it relates to the Abrahamic religions. It gets even worse. I wonder what other “justifications” (more like excuses) can the religious like you come up with. Don’t you see that the same renunciation of logic you use in defense of polygamy is the same one other believers in your own religion use to defend pedophilia, and suicide bombings among many other evils?
Prophet Mohammad married mostly widowed women. He would take care of them by giving them money, food, a home. He took care of their children and made sure that they had the best life possible.
I donate to charities that help widowed women and children in Africa. I don’t have to marry them, much less have sex with them. I don’t pay for sex. Much less trying to disguise such payments as “charity”. That is so despicable and misogynistic that it escapes description.
Islam is not the main reason for the blood shed in the Middle East. The West is.
Sure, because the Shia and the Sunni started to kill each other just a few years ago. Right? Because the Jews (believing they have a divine land deed to Palestine) and the Arabs have always been peaceful throughout history till recently. Right? All these conflicts predate the west. And that is just fact.
Who gave Saddam weapons to kill millions of Iraqis and Iranians? The West
I don’t condone violence in any way, shape or form. But the point is this: Muslims killing other Muslims. Where the weapons come from makes no difference. Is like blaming the bullet for the murder instead of the person that pulled the trigger.
Who supports Israel’s terror on the Palestinians and gives Israel millions of dollars? The West
Who supports Palestinian suicide bombers and gives terrorist groups the means to execute such operations? Islamic organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. And your point is? Again, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict predates the West. Again, study your history first.
Who did Osama Bin Laden used to work for? The West. In fact he used to be an ex Cia agent.
Bin Laden fought against the Soviets. “Working” for the West? Not so much. More like the enemy of my enemy is my friend type of deal. Fighting the Soviets who were invading Afghanistan. Law of unintended consequences I guess. The fact of the matter is that when the terrorists hit the towers their last words were “Allahu Akbhar”. Their expressed intentions were clear. Look them up.
All of the dictators in the world are because of the West.
Sure. Because the Iranian theocracy is a West created and established system. Because the cutting of hands for stealing, stoning for adultery and death for apostasy (as established in Sharia Law) is all the West’s doing. How the Saudis treat women or how they act in Indonesia is all due to the West. Because there were no dictators before what we called the modern West existed. Right?
And for one reason only - oil.
Sure. That is why invading Iraq was such a great idea an oil right now is at one dollar per gallon. Right? The cheapest in history no doubt.
If there were no oil in the West, there would be no hate against Muslims.
I don’t know about hate. I don’t hate Muslims. But I can tell you that the legitimate critiques I make in this blog are not dependent on oil. They are environmentally responsible. :-) Nor can they be construed as hate in any way, shape or form.
Ironically, all of the Muslim terrorists began the EXACT SAME time when oil was discovered, which was like 100 years ago.
Check your history. There is nothing more terrorizing than Sharia law (right next to the laws in the Old Testament). It predates oil btw. Just so you know.
And even so, are you justifying suicide bombings? I personally prefer the Gandhi/MLK method of effecting change.
The fact of the matter is that there are no suicide Jainist terrorists. The more radical you become as a Jainist the more peaceful and non violent you become. The same cannot be said of Islam. Any idea why?
In Islam, killing one person is killing the world. Suicide bombing is not allowed. Whoever commits suicide, for WHICHEVER reason, even in the name of “Allah”, will spend forever in the fires of hell.
As you interpret it. Some “scholars” using the same texts you believe to be holy have arrived to a different conclusion. So different that the result of suicide in the service of god is nothing less that a whole bunch of virgins (truly a more misogynistic depiction of heaven you will not find). The fact of the matter is that such texts are not holy and we should not depend on them to know what is right or wrong.
Look, fundamentalist are not crazy. They are not any less crazy than the moderates. Remember that moderate dogma is as equally unsupported by evidence as the extremist kind. The difference only lies in the terrible behavioral outcomes of one in comparison with the other.
The solution to those behavioral outcomes can only come from rejecting irrationality and promoting evidence on all fronts. Moderates don’t get a free pass. Fact is that moderation can and does breed extremism because both moderates and extremists share the same irrational mindset. It is not in atheist conventions where radicalization occurs, but in moderate mosques and churches all around the globe. Have you asked yourself why?
For more on this topic check out point 8 on my FAQ.
Please don’t think that all Muslims are terrorist.
Never said so. Never even thought that is the case.
I hope one day you will see Islam for the religion it truly is - not as religion of terror.
I see all religions for what they are. A rejection of reason and an affirmation of superstition. We have seen its effects. humanity has seen it for thousands of years now.
Have a wonderful day.
May you and your family be blessed.
In reason always:
Hi. Hope you are well. I don’t want to sound rude either. But consider this:
If one goes with the 9 year old hypothesis for Aisha the Shia get offended. If one goes with the 28 years old hypothesis the Sunni get offended (and one can get accused of heresy either way). And still the fact remains that the writers of the materials explicitly state 9 years old, and these individuals were closer to the purported events than any modern “scholar”.
Has it ever occurred to you that no one has the right to NOT be offended and that truth, facts and verifiable evidence are preferable than myth and superstition?
What research is there to be done? That religions are nothing more than a pick and choose exercise on things that lack any evidence of being true in the first place? Who decides who is right between Sunni and Shia? Who decides if it was 9 or 28 years old? Can’t you see that such religiously based nonsense is the cause of so much bloodshed in the Middle East? The reason and license to have child brides in many of these countries? Did the “prophet” did not have multiple wives? Is that not a clear reason why women are treated so poorly in Islamic societies?
I am not the one taking child brides, I am not engaging in polygamy, nor am I the one presenting overtly complex and implausible arguments in order to have Islamic materials say something different to what they actually say. If someone is offended by me then these people need to sit down and realize that the problem is not in those who point out the obvious. The problem is in the fact-less religion itself and how the true believers act upon it.
How sad. Muslims don’t know their own religion. Maybe if they did they wouldn’t be Muslims in the first place.
Here are some quotes from other fucking dumbasses, as described by shiawithin, that were closer to the events than me or anyone else today.
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that ‘Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).” what you know of the Quran (by heart)’
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
9 years old /= late 20s. Simple.
Is it a surprise then that child brides are so prevalent in muslim societies? Of course not. Funny how the “misunderstanders” of Islam are those that know the source material more intimately than anyone else.